Ships/ Naval combat

Imperial Glory is an interesting addition to the turn based strategy game. Lot's of mods to enhance the gameplay.

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caesar01
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Ships/ Naval combat

Post by caesar01 »

A question about the naval battles. It seems the Ships of the line are all of the 3 deck variety, ie. 90 or more guns and the frigates are two deckers of 60 guns and the slopes like frigates.

Will there be more accuracy in these units, will differant vessels of the same class have differant firepower? Or are all ships of the line three deckers and frigates two deckers?

In case this doesn't get fixed, I'll TRY to think of the frigates like 2 deck ships of the line, what they REALLY look like... And the ships of the line will be my flagships and slopes will be frigates, man, this is really streaching it... LOL :mrgreen:
zzxxcc
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Post by zzxxcc »

Wow, I never noticed. I admit, I was braced for the worse, since I knew the Naval combat element of the game looked like a very stripped down version of "Age of Sail II: Privateers Bounty"...and AoSII wasn't very sophisticated in the first place.

The two deck frigate problem is a little of a head scratcher, but frankly just having frigates engage ships of line-of-battle was pretty much out of the question.

It's a stretch but I like the game and will give it my best benifit of the doubt. :)

For the time being let's say that the two decker frigates shown in the game are a image composite that signifies all rates of ship larger than a sloop but smaller than true ships of the line. Maybe they're Razee's? :)

But I must say, I'm glad to have another Navy tar around to bring this up! While the lovers of Napoleonic landlubbers are taking issue with the exact colour of the regimental uniforms, the significance of the avalibility of only three ships rates seem's to have passed unnoticed. In a relatively small genre of Napoleonic gamers, we Naval Napoleonic gamers are a small genre within a small genre.

But when the full game is released, let's ask Berdan at the Eidos forums (His work on the demo models has been absolutely brilliant) if he could re-do the frigate models from two-deckers to one.
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

Hi everyone,

Am I crazy or is there 2 TANF Imperial glory forum sites?? :?
When I go to Imperial glory game site and click on the community and forum tab, this is not the site hat comes up, but almost identical? This is really wierd.

Gentleman... The naval aspect of the game needs clarification...

Will there be differant classes of ships of the line, ie. 64 guns, 74 guns, 80 guns, 90 guns, 98 guns, 100 guns, 104 guns, 112 and 120 guns?

Will the frigates carry 32 guns, 36 guns, 38 guns, 40 guns, 44 guns, 50 guns annd so forth?

The reason I say this is obvious and almost unbelievable that this part be ignored !!

To have only one type of ship of the line, 3 decks and 2 deck frigates won't cut it, that's inexcusabley unrealistic !

Frigates generally had single decks like sloops and the ships of the line by vast majority were 2 gun deck types ! Not the frigate! The 2 deckers were 64 and 74 gunners and 80 gunners.

This needs to be addressed.
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

I just found out it was the eidos site I got this site confused with. :) Now I know. :mrgreen:

Let's here about the ships guys, tell us your thoughts.
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

Hi Guys,

If any of you can post about this on the Eidos Forum, I'd be obliged as they will not send me confirmation of my registration. Any of you guys have problems registering? Please, don't let them get away with this.

People deserve to know the truth about Naval warfare in the Napoleanic era and how it should be done.
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Raquiem
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Post by Raquiem »

yeah it's common problem ^^
Sick or @tm will help u (probably ^^)
"Lubię słuchać gdy jest już późno, gdy wszyscy śpią, kiedy gwiazdy lśnią...i jest cichy cały dom..."

"If it quacks like a duck....etc it probably is a duck." - Screamingpalm
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

Sick??? Can you help me with this, could you speak for me and the other Napoleanic Naval warfare enthusiasts? Please... We have no voice without you.
zzxxcc
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Post by zzxxcc »

I'm a burgeoning Naval Enthusist.

I have a complete set of the Aubrey/Maturin chronicles, some Forester etc.

I'm in the midst of reading parts of Falconers and of William James Naval Chronicles. I've visited tall ship after tall ship when they visited my home port of Halifax, Nova Scotia and read voraciously.

But still, I don't entirely agree with your feelings of urgency.

There is not yet a Naval game which encompasses the most remote fraction of the complex world of the 17th and 18th century man of war. The few that have tried (Age of Sail/Privateers Bounty) have been rather wanting. There are fewer still that I've found on developmental horizon that strike me as remotely promising.

A bitter disappointment.

But "Imperial Glory" is the first game I've found that even goes beyond using the the effect of Navy's on the Strategic struggles of the Napoleonic wars!

Naval gameplay in Imperial Glory is the barest reflection of the reality. But it IS an acknowledgement!!! It is a tip of the hat in respect to functional importance that the Navy's and sailors of the world had on the grand course of that titanic struggle.

Is is wanting? Yes. Is it at times misleading? Yes. But it is better that nothing.

And it's enough for me.
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

The fact of the matter is this...

If Eidos did at least half their homework, or modeled the ships according to their differentiation of ship subclasses on their own website,they'd have me sold ie:

100 gunners, 3 decks.

74 gunners, 2 decks.

50 gunners & 38's, 1 deck

Sloops, smaller one decked ships

As it is, I feel the naval enthisiasts are short changed. I for one, will be looking forward to the naval battles in Rise and Fall: Civilizations at War.

Much more epic.

Here are the facts:

If Eidos had copied Privateers Bounty: Age of Sail 2, they'd have alot more running for their money :wink: At least they knew how to make a game.

I will probrably buy this game, but not now.I may wait till a few months and check it out later when it's half price on EBay.

Sorry Eidos, should have done your homework. Also sorrier yet is the lack of enthusiasm on the part of naval gamers, you disapoint me boys. I guess there are very few of us who won't compromise.

I'll stick with Age oF Sail.
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Re: Ships/ Naval combat

Post by TAFNsick »

caesar01 wrote:A question about the naval battles. It seems the Ships of the line are all of the 3 deck variety, ie. 90 or more guns and the frigates are two deckers of 60 guns and the slopes like frigates.

Will there be more accuracy in these units, will differant vessels of the same class have differant firepower? Or are all ships of the line three deckers and frigates two deckers?

All Ships of the Lines are 3 deckers, Frigates 2 deckers, etc.
The firepower depends on its crew size. Then there are also experience modfiers, but I don't exactly know how they affect reloading times and accuracy and such just yet.
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Post by Isledall »

I just hope the naval battles are fun...

realistic.. well that would make the game to long...
nevertheless the more it looks and feels real with a good battle speed then I will be very happy...

and Rise & Fall.. dunno.. screenshots look promising.. but I am turned of by the Hero / God thing never like the magic hand in a game...

as for that matter I am glad Imperial Glory has no Wardogs or screaming woman as units... ok ok you got the stickman... lol

But who knows lets just wait and see and not judge a game on the feelings one has.. as we first have to play it....

and if you are a ship man.. I would say go for the U-boot simulation SilentHunter 3.. it is a blast... but I warn you it can be 90% boredom and 10 % breathtaking action... I am still loving it every minute... and it is on sale for a good price...
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

I'm with you gentleman.

The combat does indeed look exciting, that's what puzzles me is why some basic imput from the board couldn't be used for the ships.

As we can all see , we all know a little beter about the ship arrangements and designs.

I retract my earlier coment about getting Imperial Glory, I will indeed get the game and enjoy the stategic world combat of the era. If anything, the army combat is astounding! :D To be truthful, It's at least the best, along with Rome Total War , real time combat.

The problem is not individual ship designs, even a generic of each class would be the least and it would be accurate and one could alter the texture.

I have faith that Berdan can give us some nice textures and skins, hopefully some variaion in ship graphics of the classic ships of each country. I will open up a topic about that very soon, much obliged to hear your imput on this guys.

So, from my understanding. We will be able to do 6 on 6 combat as it is now per zone. So Theoretically, one could have a few "zone clusters" together with 6 ships in each zone?

Man, that sounds like it would be awesome if we could unlook a way to ambush from one multiple zones of 6 ships each. I wonder if there still is a way???

If anything I aplaud the crew at Eidos for venturing into army and naval combat and hopefully soon there will be epic naval battles and pause opion as well. Sometimes one has to take a break for...whatever, you know?
Here's a few links ith some of the ship examples, one of each of the correct renditions of a sloop, a frigate, a 3rd rae ship of the Line and a 1st rate ship of the line:

A first rate ship of the line, 4 decker, 136 guns
http://www.modelexpoinc.com/images/p21656B.JPG

A 38 gun English frigate, 1 deck and forcastle guns and poop deck.
http://www.modelexpoinc.com/images/p3805B.JPG

A typical French sloop of war of the era, 1 deck only, 20 guns, none on poop or forcastle
http://www.modelexpoinc.com/images/p1969B.JPG

A French 3rd Rate ship of the line, 2 decker, typical 74 guns
http://www.modelexpoinc.com/images/p2443B.JPG

If anything guys, these beautiful works of art such as the ships of the age of sail, the ships of the line and frigates from France, England, Russia deserve to be faithfully representated.

I hope you see what I mean now. Let's get Berdan to work on these !
The only thing we would need to adjust damage I think for the sub classes of frigates, say 38 guns or 44 or 32. Also what typs of cannon shot weight, or carronade weight, 18 pound shot, 24, 32 or 68 lbs caronade blast ! Also the differant ships of the line carried various armament.
English 1st rate 3 deckers carried 32 pounders on the lower, 24 pounders on the middle and 12 pounders on the upper deck and poop and forcastle.
2nd Rte 98 gunners and 90 gun 3 deckers carried 32 pounders on the lower deck, 18 pounders on the middle deck and 9 pounders on the upper deck making them a strong but somewhat lighter punch.

I encourage all of you to check out this sight, model expo. I have built varius ships and you will learn about the true ships of the period.
http://www.modelexpoinc.com

All thoughts are appreciated. :mrgreen:
Last edited by caesar01 on Fri May 13, 2005 12:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

Actually guys, that first ship link is the only 4 decker 136 gun warship in the world, Santisima Trinidad ! 8)

Here is an exelent English 100 gunner:

http://www.modelexpoinc.com/images/p6031B.JPG

Here is the largest French 120 gun 1st rate ships of the line,

http://www.modelexpoinc.com/images/p3886B.JPG
caesar01
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Post by caesar01 »

Thank you SICK and Isledall,

My question is now that we know the amount of crew in the game will dictate firepower, will it be the army units or marine units of the ship itself, a combination of both, or will diferant amounts and weight of cannon shot and speed dictate the firepower in the naval combat?

Give us the details :mrgreen:
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