SPI's "Napoleon at Waterloo"

[zzxxcc]

I dabbled in hex and marker strategy boardgaming when I was a kid and while recently doing background studies in anticipation of "Imperial Glory" I found this classic introduction to wargaming for download and printing online!

http://www.alanemrich.com/PGD/Week_03/PGD_NAW_rules.htm

This got me thinking about those type of games. I've only kept my old and infrequently used copies of: ASL's "Squad Leader, ADB's classic "Starfleet Battles" and my (not so old, not so classic) "Babylon 5 Wars" by the very short lived and now defunct 'Agents of Gaming' company.

Everyone is comparing IG to other computer games (Mainly Rome:TW), but MY favorite computer wargame of recent years was based on a -boardgame-, not from another recent computer one. That was Battlefronts game "Combat Mission" that was heavily based on the above listed "Squad Leader" board game.

I never have played Rome:TW, so I have no clue as to it's design influences, but already I'm seeing HUGE connections between IG and those classic hex/marker boardgames set in the Napoleonic era.

But I can't draw specific parallels as I was only passingly familar with them.

So, I call to you: Any there any hex/marker tabletop wargamers in the room?

Please tell me yes, it would at least indicate that my hopes are reasonibly justified-hopes that "Imperial Glory" has more incommon with the hex/marker Napoleonic board games from 'Operational Studies Group' than it does from another modern computer RTS one?

Come' on!
I'm guessing at least a few people have a copy of an old "Avalon Hill", SPI or at least one from an old "Stategy and Tactics" magazine???

Tell me I'm not getting too old for this sheat?

--Dave J

[caesar01]

Not too old friend. I used to play the Star Fleet battles in the 90's alot as a teenager, great fun . Also great information and alot of information on the units, starships and all rhose little things you always wanted to know.

I remember the Avalon Hill game, Wooden Ships and Iron men in 1994 I believe and that was awesome as you had the first tactical and historicly accurate man of war naval combat.

Hull statistics thickness, damage absorbtion, cannon volley, weight of cannon shot.

So, no, your'e no that old...

[saddletank]

I never really got into board/hex wargames. I'm very much a fan of the look of the thing so painted miniatures is what appeals to me. The only board game I played regularly with a group of friends (other than the very abstract Diplomacy) was Wooden Ships & Iron Men and even later on we converted this game to use 1200 scale model ships.

I moved from figure gaming to PC gaming and don't tend to play hex based games on the PC with the exception of the superb Age of Rifles which I still play a little as it covers so well a period no other PC game has.

[zzxxcc]

Not too old yet, but getting older...


Interesting you would bring up 'Wooden ships and Iron men'; I recently tried the 1996 computer version that's avalible free at "Home of the Underdogs"

http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=1280

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A friend of mine I grew up with has just recently discovered computer 'strategy' wargames of the lighter variety (Blitzkreig) , but it did finally pulled his interest away from his point-n-shoot xbox gaming.

Anyway, he's always diffident to my overall general 'strategy and tactics' skills and I've told people- the best way to get good at every game is to get good at as many strategy games as they can.

And there is absolutely no comparison to the mental exercise the comes from learning to master the difficult intricacies of a hex and marker wargame with a big heavy rulebook!

But before I can teach him, I need a refresher course myself! So I've been breaking out my old boxed games, setting up the board and re-reading the rules.

Unfortunately I never did have a good Napoleonic game for my shelf (I mostly did the Sci-fi: Star Trek, Mech Warrior thing)

There's alot of really interesting looking Napoleonic boardgames on the market but they're pretty expensive. And if there is one thing I hate to buy on ebay it's a boardgame- there are always a few missing markers!

--Dave J

[saddletank]

It's surprising how much like a hex game Rome:Total War's map level feels like, the map is just a bunch of squares and you can manouver up to an opponent and see the brown set of 8 ZoC squares around his army/fleet, and introduce supporting forces into those ZoCs before going into the attack.

[caesar01]

Imperial glory does indeed share that , I think it's great and an excellent way to go.

Checked out woodedn ships and iron men, a ground breaking game when it came out. They even modeled the ships pretty accuratly too.

Man, have any of you guys played Starfleet command, alot like StarFleet battles . Great games and Avalon Hill is missed in the computer gaming. They did an excllent Napoleanic war game that as very accurate, especially the situation with the fleets, very neat .

[robbiem101]

ive been a simulator gamer but since a friend of mine suggested to me to play RTW ive been stuck of stratergy games they are great i neva b4 that thought of buying a stratergy game but i know think i cant live without them ok thats a bit drastic but you know what i mean

[LevMyshkin]

well, i'm old enuff to have played ALOT of that stuff.

what are your specifc questions?

i would compare IG more to "Diplomacy" than to any hex game. don't know if there is any info on it to be googled.

you can recognize alot of "old" wargamers by the appearance of them being "aplogists". we're SO used to games not working properly and the fact that no hex game will "be realistic", that we truly get to accept games as they are.

biggest problem with those games is finding someone with the time to play. after all, set alone could take more than an hour!!! (bless pc's !! ) (and unless you have a spare dining table - no such thing as "save game")

no wife/girlfriend will put up with the hours it took to play them.

Avalon hill used to make a game called "Napoleon", i think Columbia Group owns it now. twas one of those "block" games. it's the 100 days campaign. it's also something that easy to teach and wicked fun to play. you can crank out a couple of games in a night.

TW's battlefields are the closest that you come to experiencing the "hex game battles". probably why so many old goats like it. i reckon the devs remember the "good old days" too and that's why they're games are as they are.

don't listen to the TW bunch "pooing" IG. they probably "poo" TW on CA's forum.

i find the games to be more opposites than alike. when Pyros' has some time to reflect, they'll probably adapt the "battle" part of the game.

but the "campaign" part is way different. you can see the inspiration, but IG wins hands down here. i still haven't figured out all the options, it's a totally different frame of mind. you don't realize how well, you "manouvered" technically and diplomatically untill all heck breaks loose (playing as GB).

if you want more "finesse" with the battles, give TW a try. old pc's try shogun, post XP, try MTW?VI.

collectively, the games add to the "buffet of life", but they're VERY different. hard to compare. if you like wargames, they're both good. but don't expect "diplomacy" in TW. compared to IG, it don't exist.

willing to add if you want....

Lev

[Isledall]

board games... that was a long time ago... I do however still play PBM..
indeed.. although it is now upgraded to PBEM
for the youngsters: Play By Electronic Mail....

still playing now in two Victory games by Rolling Thunder... and loving it..
a two weeks turn based WWII game.. still got two years to go before the game ends

Imperial Glory.. abit like the old pen and paper games.. hmmmm like said before by someone the diplomacy comes close for the political system...
concerning the battle system.. well no game pops into my mind..

to buy or not to buy.. well if you like to take over the world this is a good and fun game... if you are more into Roman time go for RTW